A Suggestion About The Racism Rule.

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1 year 3 months ago - 1 year 3 months ago #30397 by Victor
A Suggestion About The Racism Rule. was created by Victor
Hello everyone, it’s Viktor(Sata) here.

First of all, I want to start by saying that I fully agree with de 1-month length ban for racism, but the 1-month ban as it's being used can easily make a new player never come back, and an older player just doesn't bother to come back (like when I traveled for 2 weeks August last year and forgot the game for like 6 months).

I'm proposing something between 1 day to a week ban as a first warning and then go directly to a month's ban on a second infraction. Of course, I propose that in cases of not explicit racism, like when someone plays a song that he maybe doesn't know what it means or a light joke, what is light or explicit it's up to the admins.

PR is dying, that's not new and I'm proposing this as an attempt to extend its life.
 
Last edit: 1 year 3 months ago by Victor .

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1 year 3 months ago #30412 by Valentine
Replied by Valentine on topic A Suggestion About The Racism Rule.
man i got banned for a joke and they said 1 month its been 2 months i really wanna play but i cant this makes me give on the game

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1 year 3 months ago - 1 year 3 months ago #30417 by Victor
Replied by Victor on topic A Suggestion About The Racism Rule.
I think they don't have a automatic ban lifting, you just need to ask when the time is over
Last edit: 1 year 3 months ago by Victor .

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1 year 3 months ago - 1 year 3 months ago #30418 by =HOG= 2IC
Replied by =HOG= 2IC on topic A Suggestion About The Racism Rule.
Hey Victor,

Thanks for the post.

This is just my personal opinion---not any opinion/position of the HOG or admin team at all---but here's my thought.

Afaik, if you look at the racism-related ban appeal posts, your proposed approach is somewhat already applied.
That is, while one-month ban on explicit racism (i.e. saying/typing racial slurs, calling someone a racial slur, etc.) is strictly enforced, certain cases caused by ignorance of the rule or how it is enforced and certain cases where the racist behavior was more implied than explicit, there is a varying ban length. So a case-by-case review of each incident.

But I do agree with your point that some players who get banned for a month don't bother to come back, especially new players who don't fully realize the gravity of the violation they committed.
A 7-day ban or something like that as a final warning/initial punishment could be a good idea, as a way to remind the players about the rule and make sure they don't violate it again.

But one thing to consider is that, at HOG, we consider the rules themselves to be a warning, hence why they are quite detailed and why we remind players to check out the rules both in-game and on the forums.

Obviously any changes to the rule or how it's enforced is up to the head admins, but thanks for starting a constructive debate.
Last edit: 1 year 3 months ago by =HOG= 2IC. Reason: Added a sentence.

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1 year 3 months ago #30454 by squires990
Replied by squires990 on topic A Suggestion About The Racism Rule.
The only reason we have such a strict rule is because it is difficult to determine intent when it comes to stuff like this.

Most slightly mature people just avoid saying anything that might be construed as a racial slur in the first place, and I believe that is the intent of the rule.

Anyone who has been convicted in a hog court of law for breaking this rule needs to grow the fuck up, it's incredibly easy to never say anything that would get you in trouble here.

The rule didn't always carry such harsh punishments, but people kept saying explicitly racist shit so here we are.

> Of course, I propose that in cases of not explicit racism, like when someone plays a song that he maybe doesn't know what it means or a light joke, what is light or explicit it's up to the admins.

You're referencing teeko? I find it hard to believe anyone with 2 brain cells would consider a johnny rebel song to be anything other than extreme and explicit racism?

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1 year 3 months ago - 1 year 3 months ago #30457 by Victor
Replied by Victor on topic A Suggestion About The Racism Rule.
[justify]
> Afaik, if you look at the racism-related ban appeal posts, your proposed approach is somewhat already applied.

Yes, I've been reading the forum for some time now and I saw just some cases like that, until today.

> we consider the rules themselves to be a warning

Yes, but expect that a new player gonna read a manual or even the server rules today is crazy. I remember when my parents brought TES: Morrowind that came with a magazine(that I still have today) and I've read that a thousand times, the same with the little book that came with the BF2 CD, but today there's no such thing anymore, new players are used to forced tutorials and a thousand pop-ups. On a well-populated game, it's okay to have a server with so strictly enforced rules, but I don't think that applies to the actual situation.


> The only reason we have such a strict rule is because it is difficult to determine intent when it comes to stuff like this.

And people will often try some excuse, I saw a lot of people bending the facts for their own benefit over here, but I believe that It's better to apply a small sentence on a "guilty" guy than apply a harder one on a "sinless". Maybe I think like that because I didn't play when people used to abuse as you said.

> Most slightly mature people just avoid saying anything that might be construed as a racial slur in the first place, and I believe that is the intent of the rule.

Yes, but that's really difficult on a community so diversified as the server is today, I can only use myself as an example. I used to call Latinos "boludos" in-game in a light joking manner because they always laugh when I do that, but reading the DIVSUL rules a couple of weeks ago I realized that it can be offensive for them. I discovered that call someone "gringo" is offensive when I lived for a month with a Mexican, different from the rest of the continent, here in Brasil "gringo" is like slang for foreign and completely inoffensive. The point is that people here come from so different experiences that's really difficult to judge.

> You're referencing teeko? I find it hard to believe anyone with 2 brain cells would consider a johnny rebel song to be anything other than extreme and explicit racism?

No, I rarely play with Teeko and was not present when this happened, by the way, I had no idea who is Johnny Rebel until now.

* Grammarly is indicating a ton of clarity and fluency problems, the text is probably not very clear.[/justify]
Last edit: 1 year 3 months ago by Victor .

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