Unrightfully Banned

(To Wank) I appreciate your input Wank. Initially, I had only gotten the combat engineer kit in order to establish a fob to help the team (like always). An MTLB was nearby and I had to get the kit in order to not expose the FOB being dug. It was only upon cumpletion that I decided to just push up towards one of the exits (of three) near RUS main in order to mine it. The BMP had stood behind my mines for a long 66 seconds for him to never notice my mines until they pushed up to my humorous surprise, which is kind of a moot point I guess. Nonethless, thanks for your words Wank  

(To Jumper) EXACTLY! Everything you have said shows the average rationale players and admins use for this map (and others). Seconds before the ban, I was about to mine the Western exit as well, since it is a COMMON mining spot 2nd to the South exit. Considered dirty, but there is another exit that experienced combat engi victims use on the Eastern side. On top of that, Devs did fix mines disappearing and updated them to be removed by C4 and tank shells. All that led me to believe I had eliminated any prior semblance of dirtiness in this case. Thank you for addressing the issue and supporting my argument!



(To lespyd + other admins) Thanks for your responses towards myself. I'm in agreement with Wank that a rule should be made for this map in order to display a coherent idea on what exact areas near a teams' Main is in violation of Section 4 if mining/camping with AT. I say this since the reason we're here in the first place is because I thought that as long as my mines weren't in DOD (they'd be deleted automatically thanks to Devs) it'd be fair game. But, according to an admin at the time, my mines being at an exit for Main was considered breaking the rule listed under Section 4, "Stay away from enemy main/DOD".

With all due respect, different admins have different interpretations of some rules (obviously so do players), which results in how they handle players when situations like this come up. This problem could be resolved by updating the guidelines to have map specific rules, since Section 4 could be considered as broader boilerplate. It would be beneficial to the community if map specific rules were to be instituted. We already have one, "Section 5: MUTTRAH SPECIFIC RULES". Because, despite Section 4, players will still get close to enemy Main and mine/camp outside the DOD-shaded region. Many admins seem to take action ONLY if someone is fired upon/killed in DOD, while a few ALSO take action if this happened NEAR enemy Main but OUTSIDE the DOD-shaded area.

This could be said for maps such as Grozny, Kokan, Muttrah, GAZA (especially), Falcon, Dovre, KAFR, Fallujah, Saaremaa, etc.

So for now, for absolute clarification; Rushing first flag is permitted, however, mining/camping the immediate exits of an enemy Main (well outside DOD) is deemed as a violation of Section 4? If so, may it be enforced as a means of providing consistency for players to avoid committing the violation and facing consequences?

I hope my argument thoroughly communicates the dilemma that stems from Section 4 being equivocal in certain but constantly-recurring situations such as this and that you as well as the rest of the admin team take this into much consideration. I have argued my points as a concern for our community. This issue creates confusion for players since no official precedent is set for them to follow. Which is why aside from an update to the rules, I ask that this thread be referenced in future situations as some sort of baseline to go off of.

Many thanks.
  


 

Tbh i think this issue requires a discussion since the rule enforcement is not entirely clear.

I think you are in the wrong here Les. Certain maps have always had this type of behaviour on the borders of certain factions' main/DoD.
It's not only the issue of Beirut, you have Marlin, Muttrah, Falcon too for example.
In these maps there are only 2/3 exits out of main/DoD for certain factions and they are easy to mine and in effect easy to block/destroy assets leaving main.

This is a habit that has been going for YEARS on all servers, since no server prohibited such behaviour. It has always been considered fair play (which i disagree with), since no rules prohibit it and all areas outside the DoD are eligible for fight.

Issue here is that here on HoG it falls down to admin's interpretation and judgement which creates an uncertainty considering that most of the time this behaviour was not considered as breaking the rules, furthermore, even some admins have done the same thing numerous times.
So, i think you see that here we have a problem with a situation that is not prohibited by the rules, has been done numerous times for YEARS and now it is enforced based on arbitrary decision by an online admin.

My opinion is that tricky situations such as these should be clarified whether they are punishable or not. Less uncertainty for players and less day-to-day administration for you.

=HOG= wrote:

WHY ARE YOU EVEN IN A SITUATION WHERE THAT CAN POSSIBLY HAPPEN? If you stayed away from main, that would not be a problem. The only time where that may ever be a valid situation for that to happen is if the last flag is in play, which most of these examples do not happen. 
 

Consider the same map (Burning Sands) where the view distance is 1.5 km. You can literally sit at the edge of dod and shoot into your second flag (Highway Intersection/Olive Grove). How would you go about a situation like that?

You can't put the attacking team at fault here, the view distance on the map is just massive to allow such things. If you want to prevent shooting into/out of dod, Just make an invisible wall that bullets can not pass through until you have exited this area. This feature already (kind of) exists but allows bullets to travel a significant distance first before exploding at dod's edge. (You can test this out by trying to Hydra someone's main with a helicopter).

What about maps like Charlie's point and Pavlovsk bay where there is a dod all the way to the near coast. Would it be illegal in such cases, when they main point of the dod on maps like those is to prevent the land based faction from pushing amphibious vehicles beyond a specific point and not because they don't want an engagement to occur in those cases. Honestly its Obvious that some rules in certain maps just CAN NOT BE APPLIED as it will be game breaking, and there are also maps where if these rules are NOT APPLIED, will also be game breaking. And what are you going to do in that case? Make map specific rules for every map? That's just unviable the rules need to be updated and stated clearly both for Native English speakers and non Native English speakers.